Egyptology, archaeology, what’s the diff?
A topic on the EEF lists has been on ethics of Egytpologists, with a subthread of what the difference between Egyptologists and archaeologists is. FWIW, I think they’re two separate fields that overlap, not unlike that between zoologists and archaeozoologists.
When fresh-faced undergrads (or high schoolers) as me “ArchaeoBlog, what do I need to do to become an Egyptologist?” my first question back is to ask if they really want to be an “Egyptologist” or an “archaeologist who works in Egypt”. The stock answer is that Egyptologists are largely art historians/philologists who sometimes, but not necessarily always, use some archaeological techniques to obtain data. Archaeologists, conversely, sometimes but not necessarily always, use some analysis gleaned from Egyptological studies to further their archaeological aims.
Generally, I think, Egyptologists tend to go through Classics departments while archaeologists go through the archaeology departments. I suppose one could start all sorts of arguments here, but you can probably throw out a few generalities as well:
– Egytpologists tend to excavate tombs and temples; archaeologists go after settlements
– Egyptologists use archaeological data to enhance their text/epigraphic interpretations, while archaeologists use text/epigraphic sources to enhance their archaeological interpretations
– Archaeologists have different problem sets that range across civilizations worldwide, where Egytpologists concentrate more closely on the Middle/Near East.
Of course, a dozen Egyptologists right now could spend 25 pages debating those, but I’ll stick with the general propositions.
It’s been my experience that, at least among American archaeologists, and definitely among Americanist archaeologists, that Egyptologists and those archaeologists working in Egypt are sorta inferior, methodologically and theoretically. I would argue it’s probably a result of the whole New Archaeology fascination with Science and the hypothetico-deductive method. They’re probably right, in a way, that Egyptian archaeology is less methodologically developed and rigorous than that in North America. Much of that is historical; Egypt had abundant textual material that set up a good Egyptian chronology long before that of much of North America was established, and it was far easier to do, at least in the sense of requiring unintuitive methodologies (though see Predynastic Egypt). Egypt had king lists and tombs and temples and loads of inscriptions that structured the record while North American archaeologists had to develop chronologies using a combination of stratified sites and fairly sophisticated seriation techniques. And, not having any epigraphic data to interpret what they found in any sort of commonsense way, NA archaeologists have had to develop other methods of interpreting the rocks and stones and sticks and bones they found.
I know that the professor that directed my first project in Egypt had some struggles with other faculty members justifying the “seriousness” of the work there. The automatic response of NA people to anyone working in Egypt is sort of a mixture of envy and disdain. “Wow, Egypt, that sounds so exciting. But you’re just digging up cool stuff, while we’re doing Significant Archaeological Work.” Certainly, there are many who work in Egypt who found our anal retentiveness on sampling, stratigraphic techniques, and general proclivity toward recovering boring old sherds, sherds, and more sherds pretty, well, boring as snot. But then, people start talking about temple architecture and I’m asleep.
And yes, I still look with some suspicion on anyone who works in Egypt wearing khaki field coats and pith helmets. AND THERE ARE MANY.
But, eh, kind of a rambling post, but there it is. I could actually yak about this for hours. I shall spare you that.
My user name is Lujack Skylark. My name doesn’t work in this system. Yes, archaeology is great but you have to put the story with the stone. The artifacts are crying out for justice. Yes, there are two departments: Ancient history and archaeology. Ancient people had trade relationships. Ancient historians can only generalize trade relationships not on a basis telling us which king traded with which king. Tommorrow is New Year’s 2008 A.D. You would think some historians would have had those answers. Egyptain pre-dynastic pottery is a sham on the archaeologist side. A closer look at the Naramsin Stele pole bearers and Sahure as pictured on the Narmer Palette with pole bears will reveal new truths. Gudea of Lagash had handcrafted ceremonial maces. Pepi I statue was found in a pit with Egyptain ceremonial maces yet Flanders Pietre claims they are pre-dynasty. A Forensic scientist goes to great links to gather evidence to convict a killer but an archaeologist or a historian does not care if information discovered is a myth or reality.
Comment by Anonymous — December 31, 2007 @ 12:01 pm
Why don’t Sumer historians reveal the truth?
2243-2123 B.C. Sargon/ Nimrod’s empire lasts 120 years. Sharkalasharri is pawn of the Gutium who bring down Akkadian king Naramsin’s government.
Accad/Akkad/Agade is a Genesis 10:10 city.
2123-2032 B.C. Gutium control Sumer. Utu-Khegal of the Genesis 10:10 city of Erech defeats the Gutium.
2032-2025 B.C. Utu-Khegal reigns over Sumer. He is slain by Ur-Nammu.
2025-1917 B.C. Ur-Nammu’s 108 yr. old dynasty.
————————Biblical Double check:
2243 B.C. Peleg is born.
2213 B.C. Reu is born.
2181 B.C. Serug is born.
2151 B.C. Nahor is born.
2122 B.C. Terah Abraham’s father is born.
2122-1917 B.C. Terah lives 205 yrs. Genesis 11:32 & 12:4
1992 B.C. Abraham born.
1917 B.C. UR III destroyed.
————————From the beginning of Nimrod/Sargon’s empire to UR III’s destruction = 326 years. 2243-1917 B.C. From Peleg’s birth to Terah’s death = 326 years 2243-1917 B.C.
————————
Sumer non-legendary history matches the Bible. Why do Sumer historians keep this a secret? Why do you keep this a secret? Pass the word. Educate some people.
Comment by REX — November 27, 2009 @ 9:09 am
1917 B.C. Terah has died. Elamite king Kindattu/ Chedorlaomer destroys UR III and Abraham and Sarah visit Egypt. Kindattu/ Chedorlaomer 6 yrs. later invades Canaan in Genesis chapter 14. Abraham slays Chedorlaomer/Kindattu. Elam’s next king Indattu I is called “Son of Pepi” becomes king of Elam 2 years after king Pepi II of Egypt has died. Pepi II had trade relations with UR III.
————————
Why won’t historians show Pepi II’s trade with 4 of the 5 kings of Ur III?
————————
Comment by REX — November 27, 2009 @ 9:24 am
Biblical chronology:
1992-1817 B.C. Abraham lives.
1925 B.C. Haran dies 430 yrs. before Exodus.
1892-1712 B.C. Isaac lives.
1832-1685 B.C. Jacob.
1741-1631 B.C. Joseph.
1575-1495 B.C. Moses 80 yrs. at Exodus in 1495 B.C.
————————Abydos Kings List states Egyptian 13-17th dynasties are phony, so 12th dynasty doesn’t start in 1991 B.C. it starts later.
————————1830-1801 B.C. Amenemhet I.
1801-1765 B.C. Senusert I.
1765-1731 B.C. Amenemhet II.
1731-1724 B.C. Senusert II. He dies and Joseph enters Egypt at age 17 in 1724 B.C.
1724-1685 B.C. Senusert III annexes Canaan after entering Shechem, Canaan after Jacob left for Bethel. Genesis 35:1-6 & Genesis 47:13-20. Amorite/Hyksos enter Egypt.
1685-1640 B.C. Amenemhet III completes canal called Bahr Yousef. (Joseph’s canal)
1640-1631 B.C. Amenemhet IV mysteriously dies a few months after Joseph died in 1631 B.C.
1631-1628 B.C. Queen Sobekneferu mysteriously dies.
1628-1603 B.C. Ahmose destroys the chariot cities of Heliopolis and Avaris Egypt. Ahmose destroys all records of Joseph so a pharaoh arises before Moses birth who knew not Joseph cause the Egyptians purged all records. Exodus 1:8.
1603-1582 B.C. Amenhotep I named for AMENemhet 12th dynasty and MentuHOTEP 11th dynasty proving 13-17th dynasties were phony just like the 7-10 Egyptian dynasties.
————————1582-1495 B.C. Thutmose I is the Hebrew baby killer. Princess Hatshepsut saved baby Moses. Queen Hatshepsut stopped Thutmose II from gaining power and Thutmose III was pharaoh of the Exodus.
————————
Amenhotep II, Thutmose IV, Amenhotep III & Akenaton all receive tribute from the Amorites showing their 400 years of power were broken by Thutmose III. (Genesis 15:13-16)
Joan Oates “Babylon” shows Amorites in power at Babylon from 1895-1595 B.C. Amorites in power in Lebanon and Syria 1595-1495 B.C.
————————
2003-1913 B.C. Pepi II.
(7-10 dynasties are phony)
1913-1898 B.C. Mentuhotep I declares Thebes independent. Egyptian civil war. Amu (Amorites)invade Egypt’s delta.
1898-1848 B.C. Mentuhotep II reunites Egypt and kicks out the Amorites.
1848-1837 B.C. Mentuhotep III reopens trade with Punt.
1837-1831 B.C. Mentuhotep IV of Thebes assassinated by Amenemhet I. NOTE: 1631 B.C. Thebean Ahmose assassinates Amenemhet IV.
————————
Hyksos/Amorites entered Egypt in 1702 B.C. and Ahmose kicks them out of Egypt in 1608 B.C. in the 1st Exodus. The Hebrew Exodus is in 1495 B.C. At the time when Amorite power is broken.
————————Why won’t historians print these truths?
Comment by REX — November 27, 2009 @ 10:13 am
Old beliefs hard to shatter. There’s the truth. What does it matter? Look up towards the clear blue skies. Try to crack Satan’s lies. Study the Bible for awhile. Make the God in heaven smile. Always research the truth. Grinding down hard like a tooth. Hide the truth causes great pain. Don’t be swepted away in a pouring rain.
Comment by REX — November 27, 2009 @ 10:56 am
Eber built Ebla, Syria after Peleg who was born
in 2243 B.C.
2172-2148 B.C. Khafre son of Khufu developed trade with Ebla, Syria. (2163-2123 B.C. Naramsin of the Genesis 10:10 city of Accad/Akkad/Agade destroyed Ebla, Syria.)
2148-2122 B.C. Menkaure (Manium in Sumer language)is defeated in battle by Naramsin.
2052-2003 B.C. Pepi I has trade with Gutium Gudea of Lagash (2063-2042 B.C.), rebuilt city of Ebla, Syria and UR-Nammu (2025-2007 B.C. of UR)
————————
And still the historians remain silent in linking up ancient civilizations together!
————————
Comment by REX — November 27, 2009 @ 11:14 am
2243-2225 B.C. Mizraim/ Djoser builds Egypt’s 1st pyramid “The Step Pyramid” after Egyptians left Sumer and settled in Africa. Djoser’s high priest Imhotep worshipped the Egyptian god Ptah the deification of Path-ru-ism in Genesis 10:14. The ism = tribe. The man’s name is Path-ru.
Pathros (Ezekiel 29:14)
2225-2201 B.C. Snef-ru son of Path-ru reigns over Egypt.
2201-2179 B.C. Khufu son of Snef-ru reigns over Egypt.
2179-2172 B.C. Redejef-ru (Redejefre)son of Khufu reigns over Egypt.
2172-2148 B.C. Khaf-ru (Khafre)son of Khufu reigns over Egypt.
2148-2122 B.C. Menkau-ru son of Khaf-ru reigns over Egypt. Akkadian king Naramsin invades Egypt and wins victory.
2122-2118 B.C. Shepsekaf reigns.
2118-2108 B.C. General Userkaf Menkau-ru’s son-in-law reigns over Egypt.
2108-2094 B.C. Sahu-ru son of Userkaf reigns over Egypt. Desert tribes invade Egypt. 6 Kings listed after Sahuru and before Unis are actually generals.
Sahara desert named after Sahuru.
2094-2065 B.C. Unis defeats Egypt’s enemies in the north, south, east and west and Unis gives the god Atum credit for victory.
2065-2052 B.C. Teti Unis son-in-law developes trade with Gutium Gudea of Lagash.
2052-2003 B.C. Pepi I son of Teti has trade with Gudea (2063-2042 B.C.)and Ur-Nammu 2025-2007 B.C.
2003-1913 B.C. Pepi II has trade with UR III dynasty which exists 2025-1917 B.C. Abraham age 75 and Sarah age 65 visit 96 year old Pepi II born/lives (2013-1913 B.C.)reigns 2003-1913 B.C.
Plagues Genesis 12:17 strike Egypt putting an end to the Memphis domination of Egypt.
————————
The Egyptian historical mysteries all end. The Bible is a historically accurate document!
————————
Comment by REX — November 27, 2009 @ 1:33 pm
Wow, you’ve got some crazy commenters there…
I’m just posting to let you know there are sane readers out there as well.
Anyway, the what you wrote is true with clasical and (pre-)historic archaeologists here in Germany (and I guess in the rest of Europe too).
We tend to look down on classical archaeologists because most of them don’t know how to properly excavate a site.
Secretly we often envy them for the fact that they can dig in southern climes while we slave away in the mud in the rain.
Classical digs are often much better funded as well because they’re mostly large research projects while much of the real archaeology is done as rescue excavations.
But then again, their subject is incredibly boring so the joke’s on them
(Disclaimer: I don’t really have anything against classical archaeologists, this is just a friendly jab between colleagues)
Comment by Matt — November 29, 2009 @ 4:58 pm
Matt, how do you match the artifacts to ancient kings? Which king traded with which king? Its 2009 A.D. and modern man still cannot match ancient history between Sumer/ Babylonian kings and Egyptian kings. Tell us Matt which king traded with which king, so we can uncover historical life in the ancient world as it actually happened.
Comment by REX — December 6, 2009 @ 9:00 am
Matt,why are you against ancient history which matches our Bible? Abraham, Isaac and Jacob all had lives in ancient history. What Egyptian kings did they deal with?
Egyptian king Pepi II had trade with Abraham’s UR and Abraham visited Pepi II shortly before the Memphis dynasty was plagued. (Genesis 12:17)Isaac was told not to enter Egypt. (Genesis 26:2)Why? Senusert I was the called the “Throat Sliter of Asiatics” and Jacob entered Egypt during Senusert III reign when Senusert III annexed Canaan and Joseph controlled the economies of both Egypt & Canaan. Genesis chapter 47. Sakarra kings list state 7-10 and part of the 11th dynasty were fake and the Abydos, Egyptian kings list states the 13-17th dynasties were fake, so how can archaeologist date artifacts to non-existing dynasties? Take out the fake kings and the Bible matches ancient history, Matt.
Comment by REX — December 6, 2009 @ 12:34 pm
Google: Egyptian chronology vs. Bible Chronology (Find out how Egyptian,Biblical,Elamite,Sumer,Akkad,Erech,Lagash and Ur’s histories interlink)israel-a-history-of.com
Comment by Lujack Skylark — August 30, 2011 @ 1:15 pm